.. maybe for some people the 45 is too much power,. I have a rock island arms 1911 45, a Walther p22 22cal., A heritage rough rider 22 6 inch barrel. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. For example, a shot through the side of the body must penetrate between 10 to 12 inches to hit the heart. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! Gramins was using a 13+1 capacity Glock 21 in .45 ACP. Shot placement is the deciding factor. U.S. Navy SeaBees m60 & 45 caliber was my issue. Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. The mechanism by which adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma (ACP) damages the hypothalamus is still unclear. Alvin York was a prodigy, a natural marksman of frankly terrifying and borderline-supernatural skill. Just came down from AK and bears and mad moose have been my biggest issue. We were allowed to carry bone stock ( night sights ok. weapon purchased at our own expense ) Smith and Glock 21s ( It was the 2nd Gen Glock era. Much of the difference is 0.177" Steel air gun dart will penetrate to shank, in skin, at 120 ft/s. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. In case you didn't get the memo, the FBI's ballistic testing labs are the best in the world, and they've been doing it for a long time. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. Damage: 62. Head on over to the Concealed Carry Podcast for great audio content. Now for long engagements that are seen more in military ops and where fire suppression matters most I prefer 9mm. Okay all handgun are garbage. First off when you call a magazine a CLIP, everything you say is null and void as far as Im concerned. The bullet lands in the same place because the entire situation and milieu is what determines it. This was not a good CC carry for me so I stoped carring for a while. So dont ask. In response to this, ammunition makers began to design Hollowpoint bullets which would expand in the air during flight. There is enough blood within the brain at any time to support conscious, voluntary action for 10 to 15 seconds even in the event of the destruction of the heart itself. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. In my limited experience, shot placement is is the ultimate factor with any round. I still did like the 39-2 for CC. If you carry, you owe it to everyone to be as proficient as possible. Copyright 2023 If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please, Gunman Used Heavily Restricted Assault Weapon in California UPS Shooting. .45 ACP Damage Body Shots Head Shots Sounds Firing (9mm) Firing (.45 ACP) Reloading Swapping To Rarity The Vector is a rare SMG that spawns mainly in Hatchet Cases in the Hydra Bunker and rarely in the Storm Bunker (10% chance). We argued more capacity modern rounds ect ect. The .45 acp bounced off the helmet at 35 yards while the 9mm penetrated the helmet at an astonishing 125 yards proving that the 9mm with its higher velocity, flatter 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. Matthew McConaughey tells the story of those killed in Uvalde in emotional plea for action on guns. I preferred carrying them before things went bad for me. Studies based on law enforcement shootings that are available to us show that only one or two solid torso hits can be expected at best. Gunshot Wounds Why dont these experts just admit that they prefer Glocks and let it go at that? Thats the secret. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. The one he found had the best chance was the .357 magnum. As Sir Isaac Newton pointed out a few centuries ago, for every action theres an equal reaction in the opposite direction. What i find interesting is that so many people have so much to say and they have never been in actual shoot out. This makes rifle rounds significantly more damaging than their handgun counterparts. In other words slower bullet JHP more energy transferred more effective. finds relevant news, identifies important training information, Knock down power. The 7.62 round is not as fast as the .223, the round fired by the AR-15 (Americas most popular semiautomatic rifle), but it hits its target with more energy. None used a big cal but all targets were immediately incapacitated and all targets were within 1foot to 20 feet away. ), and I can buy twice the ammo and get twice the practice. IMHO, everyone of us is different in all ways from head to toe and mostly including the brain and fitting a handgun is different for all. Yes I can only get 2 shots off accurately in the same time as 4 with a 9 but again 2 usually does it. by Kyle Mizokami Key Point: These are the bullets that will do the For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It also drops in Air Drops, rarely as Tier Chest loot, or very rarely spawn as Tier World loot. Just happened to recall the powerful 10 auto cartridge. Ships To Store. Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. Now its true that most of those victims wounds ultimately proved fatal; but its also true that they were far from incapacitated and either did or could have returned fire if they were also armed. .223 Rem in 5.56 NATO is OK. But whats the long term average? Such as my Kimber and Walther and can never forget the CZ shadow 2. What type of bullet is being fired? If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please fill out our survey about your experience after being shot. I cant compare to 9mm but I still want to carry 45acp. A high-muzzle bullet, however, destroys whole areas of body. While, I understand that budgetary issues are a factor they should not come before the safety of the officer pr soldier. The point here is this: it is okay that the Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command has decided to issue only Glock 19's. It is also a logistics factor 45 is just one more different ammo to resupply. Human Body Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. Of course, not being in the military, or law enforcement, my goal is no collateral damage! Heres what they found it did to those enemies bodies, as republished in, Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. I dont want a light fast bullet that will over penetrate and possibly injure or kill an unintended. Because of the relatively slim chance of obtaining more than a single torso hit, the ammunition used must maximize the likelihood of immediate incapacitation. A majority of FBI shooters are both faster and more accurate using 9mm Luger versus .40 S&W rounds. It would be nice if it were that simple but of course its not. Riley, love your artical. Combat Medic's Advice: "Shoot the heaviest rifle roundshoot at Bullet was military Ball. We carried 19 rounds of 9mm in combat. Glocks are cheap, reliable, and have built a big following. Open carry is fine where Im at. end of discussion. We need to dial back our expectations of how effective a pistol is, regardless of caliber, barring brain or spine shots. So In a effort to accommodate all soldiers they switched to a milder recoiling 9mm round. G27 with the 10 for EDC and G22 with 22 count mag for inside the house, 40 doesnt seem to have that much more pop than 9mm to me, and i have relatively small hands. I like both, so it is a matter of how balanced and comfortable is it when in use ? Surprising, I know, given the current state of affairs in DC. 45 stopping power! I like the P227 better. I have the perfect picture for this: Those pins stayed in place for 18 months while the bone knit. It is a poor idea to keep your finger inside the This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. Case in point, a 1600lb bull mooseshot 3 times at 50 yards with a .338 magnum. The FBI just did the same thing. Glock 19 only playing catch up with those guns. Lexipol. When i was in the military in the 60s we still were using hard ball ammo and the same still applied. You get Into a real shooting scenario. Going back and reading over your original post, by the by, I can only say this: Also, there are documented cases from New York and other law enforcement agencies of officers shooting criminals and having their bullets pass entirely through the criminal and striking a civilian bystander, thus wounding someone not engaged by the police officer. It has a velocity of 1200-1600 ft/s and energy of 140-160 Joules. Also another fact is that my Kimber Colt 45 actually has less recoil than my 9mm with an aluminum frame when my 9mm has a full steel from. Like John Saunders, I also used a M1D scoped. Either work for me, and if I had to choose only one it would be 9mm just for the capacity. If you have to revisit the basics of projectile ballistics, here is a decent place to start. Looks like a Chinese-made toy gun. Shot placement was nearly identical. Heating effects, occurring mostly around 2.45 GHz (which is the frequency used in microwave ovens) Ionizing effects, which can damage human body and cells; Here is a picture of how the radiowaves penetrate the human body according to the frequency. How about some scientific caliber comparisons with the same type bullet and velocity range and most common weights. These are rounds designed to expand upon impact with a soft target. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. The idea that a bullet has the power to knock an adversary to the ground is a Hollywood myth. There ya go compromise just carry both. You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World This includes victims shot by suspetcs and suspects shot by our officers. If I wanted to hit a little harder, I would maybe look for a WC .45 mold in the 220 to Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. WebSearch: 45 Acp Damage Human Body. I carry a Sig P226 9mm, or a Springfield 1911 in 45. When it does occur, it is not a significant factor in wounding. Hi, I have both. More rounds the better. 45 ACP Patrick states that since vital organs are located deep within the body, it should be obvious that to ignore penetration and permanent cavity is to ignore the only proven means of damaging or disrupting vital organs. Remember it is massive blood loss that causes circulatory collapse. Any gun between 9 mil and .45 caliber is fine if you can conceal it, and employ it quickly and with reasonable accuracy. Also ALL handgun calibers are susceptible to ricochet especially when compared to rifle rounds. After 22 years as a combat soldier, I am kind of partial to the .45 ACP, but I shoot modern, guide rod equipped with aftermarket sights, not rack guns. If you dont have an excellent chance against a large carnivore with it. Train! JP-Thank you for your real life documentation. So In a effort to Really late to the discussion. Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. From my time in the USMC, I saw a certain population fall in love with the 9mm bc of its easier to handle recoil. A .45 ACP will encounter greater resistance than a 9mm, but it also carries more weight, albeit at a slower velocity. Overall I enjoyed reading your piece and found it noteworthy that Smith&Wesson ( one of the great disappointments of this and the last century) was eliminated from the contract competition. I see your point. That is those of us that has and carries guns. Second Media Inc., 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Yes, Hugh, I have shot both rounds into a human and I can say this. It appears now we have had to Dumb Down our .45cal. The 45 deer had busted bones and bullets still within them. With practice almost anything is possible. Were they not the agency who got thier asses handed to them that created this debate in the first place? I totally agree about shot placement. It was a contact shot into the center chest on a sleeping target. The round severed Platts brachial artery, passing through the arm into his chest and almost entirely through his right lung. What, is that like an every day occurrence? Which might had something to do with losing the Revolutionary War, where Americans used guerilla tactics. Developed in the early 1960s, the .223 round was first used in Vietnam. I find the heavy slide helps with the .40 recoil and keeps the barrel from jumping. Clothing fibers can wrap the nose of a projectile, preventing expansion. If you are in the sixties o more 9 mm is the best choice. 45 acp damage human body 45 acp damage human body on jun 11, 2022 on jun 11, 2022 The impact of the injury would depend on where the bullet went besides your stomach. We have came a long ways with jackets, cores and construction of bullets in the last 50 + years. I dont plan on using a handgun for long distance shooting. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. Now Im not a scientist, and comparisons of expanded 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP projectiles shows what appears to be little or insignificant difference in diameter; so I cant explain the results perhaps bullet weight plays a role too. When fragmentation occurs, the permanent cavity expands rapidly and dramatically. Of handgun owners alone, 63 percent owned these for the purpose of protecting themselves against other people, with another 20 percent owning them for protection against animals. .45 Magazine type M1911 mag.45 ACP: Damage 1389 Blood: Fire modes Semi Shots to kill body: 3 head: 1 Effective range 50/100 m Rate of fire moderate Recoil Moderat Noise Moderate So youre that guy safe at home on the computer. Shot placement is not a variable, it is a constant. Request product info from top Ammunition companies. Another reason why in war officers loved the 45 as for close infighting it usually too just 1or2 shots to land the enemy on the ground. The former is by far the leading reason for handgun ownership. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will generally not exit from a human body. Shot with 300 win mag at 500 yards. I know I prefer .45ACP. After all, its SIZE thats everything, right? Temporary cavity is often grossly overrated as a wounding factor, but has historically been one of the primary methods for measuring effectiveness. I have a Glock19 and Glock23 chambered .40S&W and that is a great round to. It turns out, however, that things arent that simple. A more accurate equation is (terminal) Energy, defined as 1/2 the mass times the velocity squared. Frank K. Seems to me that when using the same style bullet in the 45 and 9mm the 45 would still beat the 9 in stopping power. Opinions all ! .45 ACP is not the one-shot-stopping hammer that some people think it is. The saying The Quick And The Dead was true. In the above GIF of ballistics gel taking a .50-cal. In a military that accepts all genders and has lowered its physical fitness standards, Its not surprising that the 9mm was selected. I am a colt Gvt. 0.38" Special P, 158 gr non-expanding bullet will, unless it strikes a bone, pass straight through a human body. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter (i.e., recoil) and he too would be knocked down. You shoot when you can, at the place you most want. View our Terms of Service I am a Force Recon Marine with 10 years of advanced military training and have served 7 separate combat tours. I have yet to see this. I own 9mm, .40 and .45. I have formed the opinion that the 9mm is adequate, the 40 S&W is better and the 45 is best. Hollow points also create a larger temporary cavity. The comments concerning shot placement are correct. I have both, like them all, and carry them because rifles are hard to conceal! I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. I thought a 55 115lb girl with small hands would want a .380, so I was surprise when she chose a Walther PPS in 9mm. If, God forbid, you are ever in a situation where you are required to use your handgun, there is, to put it mildly, a great deal at stake. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. It makes a bigger hole. If you use .22 mag, muzzle flash is pronounced and may have some fear factor with its use. The bullet had disintegrated his spleen and torn his aorta. If Agent Doves bullet had entered Platts heart, he would have perished quickly, before launching his life-ending assault. .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. Just one article about that here: http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/. Anyone using the term bullets to discuss weapon capacity knows little about firearms and has no business writing policy.on them. According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. It is really scary to think that a jury would put any weight behind what he says knowing that the rest of my life will be determined by the crap spewed forth from him. Talk to someone that has been shot with a 9mm FMJ round and ask them what it feels like and contrast that to someone that has been shot with a 45 ACP FMJ round. As someone just coming in your home or coming at you out of the blue. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds. Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. In the past, one of the standard tests performed to assess bullet and cartridge performance was the penetration of pine boards of various thicknesses. I meanwtf? But why not? Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies I am a classic ). At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. WebAs shown in Fig. Do any one you know carry just ball rounds in their handguns? Of these, the hollow point round is the most common and effective. 1039 NE Loop 410San Antonio, TX 78209(210)-533-5431, 819 Hot Wells BlvdSan Antonio, Texas 78223(210)-533-5468, WE SHIP TO ANYWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES, Copyright 2023 Durys Guns | Powered by Durys Guns. Be Safe Out There. I have shot many different calibers. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. A 50-60gr 9mm bullet that obtains 2000 fps. I agree with your bad guy statement, but when I was training to become a Paramedic and obviously most of the training was done in the ER so we definitely saw damner everything you can imagine especially a lot of gunshot incidents and what I can tell you was that we were able to save and keep more bad guys alive who were shot with 9mm multiple times than those who had been shot 1-2 times with a .45. Indeed, physiological factors play a very small part in rapid incapacitation of a target. The Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. Sign up now to get our latest stories and eye-opening briefings. How does air resistance have ANYTHING to do with the terminal ballistics as they relate to penetration? There are an almost equal number of shootings with 9mm that are ended with one or two shots as well. Bullet coursing from behind the knee to my heel. This article will define what the question which handgun round has the best stopping power? means, and offer unbiased information that will help the readers to make up their own minds on the subject. A forum community dedicated to all 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. The Human Torso Test. If I remember my undergraduate physics, acceleration is defined as a change in velocity or a change in vector. Scratch expensive 45s. In his 1989 treatise, Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness, Supervisory Special Agent Urey Patrick explained that the goal of an officer in a life-threatening shooting incident is to incapacitate the adversary as quickly as possible. I am old school. I can load my rounds as hot as I want, and often do. Even a frontal gut shot must penetrate seven or more inches in slender adults for reliable incapacitation. to stop the threat. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. He came up in this world initially through his 8-year experience with a state-level law enforcement agency in Colorado. In winter I concealed carry a 1911. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. 45 ACP So modern ammo IS NOT the reason to switch back to the 9mm. Smith & Wesson Model 26 | Project: Aftermath Wiki | Fandom 2.1 and 2.5 million defensive gun uses annually, Law Enforcement Assistance Administration, Arming Yourself: A Woman's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Protecting Your Family: A Parent's Guide to Self Defense and Concealed Carry (CCW), Arming the Elderly: A Self-Defense Guide for Senior Citizens, Holsters for Self Defense: A Guide to Carrying Concealed, Arming Toddlers and The "Kinder-Guardians" Program: A Shamefully Bad Idea, Self Defense for LGBT: Self-Protection and Concealed Carry (CCW) for the LGBT Community, Arming the Disabled: A Self-Defense and Concealed Carry Guide for People With Disabilities. too powerful??? The two calibers no one wants to get tagged by . Mamma and papa went getting along I guess. All rights reserved. Four ribs had essentially turned to dust. The penetration of various materials can be of great assistance in the investigation of shooting incidents. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. I only want to pull the trigger 1-3 times. You may be knocked down and have to squeeze off a once and last shot to save you life. All rights reserved. F = MA is absolutely true as it applies to ballistics. What do you think of the Shield or do you know anything about it? I have several 1911 pistols. Its disturbing to me that we give up performance for comfort. I own one of each 9mil Ruger,Capacity 17 rounds,CZ 45 10 rounds.For stopping power at close range ,I prefer the 45.It is harder to conceal because of its size and weight.The Ruger 9 mil is easier to carry concealed,And a whole lot lighter.Both are comfortable to shoot,to me.A 45 is not for everyone.If you carry concealed the weapon of chose is what you are comfortable with.Handling and performance,depends on the owner.The Military has been changing weapons since day one.I suppose it usually comes down who can supply what the military wants and how much they cost.I personally have handled the Glock 17 and the 19 and dont care for them.I prefer the Ruger or the CZ. Ive got a good deal of ballistic and aeronautical knowledge under my belt, and I agree in flight friction coefficient is not something that plays a significant enough role in comparative analysis of 9mm and 45 Auto at practical ranges. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. Im sorry, but the .50 Barrett sucks there is no match grade ammo available for it. Sick and tried of people not in the field deciding what is best for those in the field. I believe politics carries the most weight.The military sidearm is the least political concern as far as what other weapons are available for them.The beretta was a good example.Far from the best weapon compared to sig & glock,it got us a deal to put missles in Italy . If an operator like a .45 go for it. If I ever have to use my firearm to defend myself or my family, I want all of the energy from that round to be expended in the target. Some of the best handgun calibers for self defense are: To adequately understand the efficiency of incapacitating a target, we must have some basic understanding of the mechanics of wounding how damage to the human body works. Why arent both so much better than .223? Then they changed to .40S&W (once they realized how difficult it was for some agents to handle). But only weighed 140 lbs then. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? The Marine Corps Times is not published by the Marine Corps. That isnt to say that the .45 is much better. Indeed, if 9mm used the same grain of bullet, the ft/lb and velocities are near-identical. There are far too many different considerations and circumstances between self-defense necessities and military/LE necessities to list in a comment section; but theyre important distinctions. Dr. Peter Rhee is a trauma surgeon who operated on victims of the 2011 shooting at a political event in Tucson, Arizona, in which six people were killed and 13 wounded in a hail of 9mm bullets. Episode 424 is the perfect companion to this post because we discuss caliber and it's relation to hit factor! Id use either! Its unlikely Id ever have to shoot at anything other than paper targets. Fair testing without the bias of budgets and the need to carry what every one else is carrying would be quite refreshing and lend more to the safety of the officer or soldier who may be fighting his or her life. It was modified to accept a detachable magazine and equipped with a folding stock. What I saw in Korea during the Korean War was that the .45 ACP was the most deadly Ive been training for 50+ years and continue to do so. By the way. The FBI claims a bullet has no hydrostatic shock capabilities until at least 2200-2400 fps. If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.. This remained the norm in the FBI until May 2014. Depends. If you throw it at someone, not so much. If its fired from a Thompson Submachine gun, its almost guaranteed to be lethal. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that were all overthinking this. More damage with one shot. At least to the U.S. Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command (MARSOC), there is no longer a question. Im sure, given the choice, MARSOC troops would take a 15 round FNX45 over a Glock 15. Give SOCOM GLocks which shoot 9mm (Glocks are great guns and I dont have a problem with the 9mm, great cartridge especially with all the advancements over the last 30 years) as I was saying problem solved. Psychological factors play a much greater role. Rookie year. The amount of energy a bullet radiates into a target is determined by a simple formula taught in high school: Its the product of one half the projectiles mass times the square of the velocity. Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 200 ft/s will detach part of the coloured portion (iris) of a human eye leaving what appears to be a second pupil. Thats because the 7.62 is almost twice as massive as a .223. Much more likely is that you will be suddenly and unexpectedly attacked by a rapidly and unpredictably moving target with limited opportunities for counter attack. Poor light and unplanned obstacles are common in real-life self-defense scenarios. 9mm Vs 45 Has The Marine Corps Settled It? - Concealed Carry Inc May everyone who reads this have a Blessed Day! Now let me add a little something about 9mm vs .45. Many do not discover the gun thats right for them as easily as you have (if they ever do)! Even long range shots! The larger a projectiles surface area, the greater its ability to transfer its energy to the target, instead of simply penetrating straight through. Heart shot, rolled it on the spot. My opinion is he got shot in the living room and after he kicked the door in. Any of these rounds will do the job in the hands of a skilled shooter, period. 25 ft same situation, I was surprised at 50 ft when my 45 actually tore the watermelon to shreds even more so than 15 and 25ft, the 9mm remained the same, 100 ft I actually missed 3 times with my Walther q4 9mm before I hit. That was with 6 shot revolvers or 17+1 round Glock 17s. I prefer 45 revolvers. A lot. .4570, .454 Casull and .460 Super Mag are all tremendously powerful. All rights reserved. F=MA always applies to the known laws of physics. If we had had 45acp in the hands of the FBI in most every one of these complete inept foul ups they would likely have never happened and the debate would only be Glock or 1911 45 acp.
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